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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 624

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for the 27th of september 2020

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richard saunders coming to you from

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sydney australia let's have a look at

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the skeptic's own window

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sunny a nice sunny day not too hot

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a good day for a long exercise walk

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later i think

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while i listen to some of my favorite

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podcasts and i guess this pandemic has

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given me more time to do long walks

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and catch up with the the swag

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the collect what's what's a group of

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skeptical

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podcasts called i wonder skeptic's guide

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to the universe the esp podcast skeptoid

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geologic podcast squaring the strange

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skeptics with a k

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tales from the rabbit hole oh no ross

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and kerry be

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reasonable zealot rationable from india

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and there's some more there i'm sure

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hopefully you too

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are finding the time to catch up on all

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these wonderful podcasts from around the

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world

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and each one of them in their own way

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will bring you a wealth of information

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but what's coming up on the skeptic zone

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podcast this week

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life is wild with michelle franklin

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ever seen a ufo hmm many years ago

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michelle and her father did and were

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quite

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baffled for a time and more recently

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she had the strange occurrence of a

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couple of red eyes

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peering at her from the darkness while

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camping a slightly spooky start

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to this week's episode following

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michelle's report we dive once more into

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the treasure trove of trove

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the online resource from the australian

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national library

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this week we're going to look for

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references to the word

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ouija as in the ouija board or the we

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are bored how many poor australians have

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been

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influenced by this demonic device over

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the decades

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after that it's the return of michelle

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bickersma with logical fallacies

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this week michelle's going to be looking

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at the burden of proof

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fallacy don't believe me we'll prove

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she's not going to do it

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then we have another edition of the book

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of tim

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with tim mandum and tim will be looking

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at

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yetis yale smuggling

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and shooting and speaking of tim menden

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we're going to round

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off this week's episode with the

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newsletter tim puts together every

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couple of weeks

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the newsletter from australian skeptics

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and speaking of australian skeptics i

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have here

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the physical copy of the latest skeptic

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magazine the journal from australian

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skeptics volume

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40 number three for september 2020

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sov sits who are they why are they

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labor ufos wakefield covet

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cranks and much more it's uh

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let's see 62 pages of information

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reports

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and what's this sometimes you just can't

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say no

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does the australian constitution give

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you the right to disregard inconvenient

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restrictions as part of

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covet 19 bruce arnold looks at the fine

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print so legal arguments about sovereign

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citizens and things like that

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and i've made my own contribution to

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this

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edition with a story called covet

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clunkers richard saunders presents a

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gallery of bad

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and dangerous claims now this has been

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inspired

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by the website coveredconspiracy.cloud

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and if you go to skepticzone.tv look at

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the show notes you'll find a link to

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this website

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where you can upload your own covered

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craziness always a good read what's this

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what's this cryptids and climate ben

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radford contemplates the impact of

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climate change on animals that may

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not exist that looks interesting and

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don't forget you can subscribe to this

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magazine have it delivered to your inbox

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which is quite cheap or the physical

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copy which i have here

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in my hand as well just go to

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skeptics.com.a you

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on such a nice bright sunny day i hope

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we can all find some time

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just to be happy just to find a little

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bit of happiness and i hope the skeptic

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zone

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brings you some entertainment and

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happiness along the way

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs

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and i'm going to have some pancakes

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because yesterday i made my own pancake

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mix and i bought some maple syrup well i

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think it's

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fake maple syrup yeah i know

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i must look at the label but this

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pancake mix i rather like because it

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uh i always put an egg in the pancake

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mix some people do that

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and i add chili flakes oh yes my dear

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friend

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jessica singer who is the president of

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the australian skeptics

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from her own garden gave me some chili

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flakes jessica i add those to the

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pancake mix

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and while i do that i hope you enjoy

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life is wild

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with michelle franklin

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hi guys this is michelle franklin

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reporting from the northern territory

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today i want to tell you a story about

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the time

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[Music]

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i would have been about 16 i think

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because it was right before i got my

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license and

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my dad was driving me to band practice

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it would have been about

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6 30 i'm not exactly sure but it was

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late enough

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that the sun had gone down and the sky

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was dark

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as we were driving out of the driveway

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we both looked up and we saw this

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massive

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glowing bright yellow ball of light in

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the sky

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we looked at it in surprise and i don't

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really remember what we said to each

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other but

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it was clear that we both assumed it was

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the moon and we were just

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staring at it because it was

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ridiculously bright for some reason

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and as we were looking at it and

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commenting on it

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he drove out the driveway and then i

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glanced to the side and i saw the actual

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moon

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somewhere else in the sky and i'll never

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forget that moment of realization

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that the glowing ball wasn't actually

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the moon

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i asked my dad what it was and he didn't

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know and neither of us knew what to do

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so we just kind of stared at it

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this was before phones had cameras in

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them and

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i don't remember thinking about going

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back into the house to find a camera

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i don't think we even told my mum and my

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sister what we saw we just

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drove out towards this yellow ball

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i don't think we were afraid but i was

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definitely in awe

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of this unknown object that was hovering

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in the sky

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i think i was running late for band

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practice as it was and my dad asked if

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i still wanted to go but we both agreed

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that following this weird glowing ball

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was

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way more important it would have been at

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least two or three minutes maybe

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maybe even a whole five minutes that we

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drove towards this thing

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and then it either moved or our

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perspective changed

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but it after a while it became apparent

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it was actually

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an end on view of the whitman's blimp

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so it looked round from when we were

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looking at it but when it turned

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sideways we could see that it was

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actually blimp-shaped

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now i've told this story to lots of

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people because i think it's the only

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time

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that i've ever actually truly believed

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that i was witnessing something

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paranormal

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i think it was around the time that the

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independence day movie with the alien

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invasion came out and i do remember

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thinking

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that the whole world was about to change

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and i was witnessing the beginning of

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something big and significant

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and reality was about to shift

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now when i think back to that moment i

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tell myself

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that this is proof that i am in fact

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open-minded because

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when i thought i was witnessing real

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evidence for alien invasion

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or at least visitation i was willing to

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believe it

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this was at least 20 years ago now and

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for most of my life this has been the

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only example that i have of witnessing

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something that i

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couldn't reconcile as fitting into the

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world that i understand

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that was until a few weeks ago when i

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got to

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test my courage and convictions again

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this time it happened

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when i was alone i was camping in a

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dried-out swamp

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with a group of people that i didn't

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know very well so

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we all set up our sleeping areas

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fairly separate and isolated from one

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another

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and i was absolutely certain that there

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was nobody near me

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when i walked back to my mozzie net it

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was also my first time sleeping

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without a tent or a swag so i was a

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little bit outside my comfort zone

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and i just had a little lightweight

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mozzie net strung up between

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two trees and a sheet of canvas on the

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ground it was

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less than what i'm used to but i still

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felt pretty safe and i crawled

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underneath the net

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to get into my little sleeping space and

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i got myself all set up and

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blew up my inflatable pillow ready to

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sleep

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and then when i switched off my torch

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and looked around

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immediately i saw these two with what

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looked like red eyes

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that were about a meter away from me and

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about half a meter above the ground

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just two little points of red light

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they looked kind of slightly flattened

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like the way eyes are

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yeah i didn't know what they were they

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just looked like these slightly

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flattened

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horizontal lines about two centimeters

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apart and

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i just stared at them for a good few

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minutes trying to figure out what they

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were

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and i remember thinking that they looked

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like a single

287
00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:56,560
red light that was reflected in a double

288
00:11:00,630 --> 00:10:57,760
glass door but

289
00:11:01,590 --> 00:11:00,640
of course there was no glass nearby and

290
00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:01,600
i thought through

291
00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:04,160
all the gear that i'd brought with me

292
00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:06,000
and the only light that i had was

293
00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:07,920
my head torch which was in my hand at

294
00:11:10,949 --> 00:11:10,240
the time and my phone which was in my

295
00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:10,959
bag

296
00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:13,120
so i was actually really impressed with

297
00:11:16,310 --> 00:11:14,000
my own reaction

298
00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:16,320
because within seconds of seeing the

299
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:18,160
glowing dots my mind immediately

300
00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:19,519
invented some small

301
00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:22,800
alien figure to go with them

302
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:25,120
and i wasn't afraid of it i thought

303
00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:27,600
through all the options that it might be

304
00:11:30,069 --> 00:11:28,160
and

305
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:30,079
i couldn't come up with any explanation

306
00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:31,440
for what it was

307
00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:33,200
and i did get a kind of an adrenaline

308
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:35,040
rush as i sat there and

309
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:37,680
watched these glowing dots i don't even

310
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:39,200
know if i looked around to see if there

311
00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:40,640
were more of them i just remember

312
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:42,560
watching these dots to see if they

313
00:11:46,470 --> 00:11:44,640
blinked or moved at all

314
00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:46,480
and of course they didn't i think it

315
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:47,920
would have been at least two or three

316
00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:49,680
minutes that i watched them with my

317
00:11:54,550 --> 00:11:52,399
torch in my hand and available but i

318
00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:54,560
deliberately didn't turn it on

319
00:11:58,230 --> 00:11:56,560
until i was absolutely sure that i

320
00:12:00,550 --> 00:11:58,240
couldn't figure out what it was

321
00:12:02,470 --> 00:12:00,560
and eventually i did turn the torch on

322
00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:02,480
and realized that was my thermacell

323
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:03,760
which

324
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:05,360
if you don't know what a thermocell is

325
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,680
it's this little device that it runs on

326
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:09,360
a little gas bottle and it heats up a

327
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:10,240
metal plate

328
00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:12,720
with a pad that releases an insect

329
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,200
repellent so it's just a little

330
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:17,279
insect repellent device but it had a

331
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:19,760
glowing ember inside it which

332
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:21,279
normally when you look up close it's

333
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:23,680
blue but apparently from a distance it

334
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:26,480
glows red with a there's a little dark

335
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:28,240
patch in between so it looked like two

336
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:29,920
glowing red dots

337
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:31,920
there you have my two instances of

338
00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:33,760
seeing something completely

339
00:12:37,990 --> 00:12:36,880
out of place in my world view and my two

340
00:12:40,389 --> 00:12:38,000
reactions at

341
00:12:42,069 --> 00:12:40,399
16 my response was to believe that it

342
00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:42,079
was aliens and

343
00:12:45,910 --> 00:12:44,160
still drive towards it and try to learn

344
00:12:48,310 --> 00:12:45,920
more and then now at

345
00:12:50,069 --> 00:12:48,320
38 my response was to sit less than a

346
00:12:53,430 --> 00:12:50,079
meter away from the potential

347
00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:53,440
danger and just watch it without

348
00:12:58,470 --> 00:12:55,600
cheating and using the torch that i had

349
00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:58,480
available the whole time i've got no

350
00:13:02,150 --> 00:12:59,519
idea if these are good

351
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:02,160
reactions but i feel like in a world

352
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:02,560
where

353
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:05,200
aliens are either non-existent or really

354
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:06,000
far away

355
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:08,560
i handled the situations pretty well but

356
00:13:12,310 --> 00:13:10,560
in a world where demons and monsters and

357
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:12,320
supernatural dangers exist i

358
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,200
might not fare too well but so far my

359
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,519
responses haven't killed me

360
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:19,440
the only other similar situation i can

361
00:13:23,269 --> 00:13:20,800
think of is

362
00:13:24,550 --> 00:13:23,279
the regular occurrence of my dog barking

363
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:24,560
in the night

364
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:26,959
i live in an isolated house surrounded

365
00:13:31,350 --> 00:13:29,040
by bushland so there's no neighbors or

366
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:31,360
passing cars for her to bark at

367
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:33,839
so when she barks i usually assume she's

368
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:34,959
smelled or heard

369
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:37,839
an animal nearby and in almost every

370
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:40,240
circumstance my response is to walk out

371
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:41,680
into the darkness to

372
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:43,760
investigate leaving the door open behind

373
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,120
me

374
00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:47,519
i once stepped out of my kitchen door

375
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:49,680
and over the snake that was lying on the

376
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:50,320
door mat

377
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:53,360
as she was barking at it luckily for me

378
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:55,120
it was non-venomous and it didn't bite

379
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:56,320
me but

380
00:14:00,310 --> 00:13:58,560
maybe i should reconsider the whole walk

381
00:14:01,990 --> 00:14:00,320
towards the danger response that my

382
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:02,000
curiosity seems to have led me

383
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:04,560
to or at least turn the light on before

384
00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:06,320
i leave the house

385
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:08,240
but i don't mind being the cliche

386
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:09,600
skeptic

387
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:12,639
friends have told me that the stories of

388
00:14:15,990 --> 00:14:14,240
things that they've seen in the dark and

389
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:16,000
the supernatural explanations that they

390
00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:17,440
have for them but

391
00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:19,279
i always tell them that there's no need

392
00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:20,959
for them to be afraid because

393
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:22,880
whenever the monsters attack it's always

394
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:24,880
the overconfident skeptic that gets

395
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:26,480
eaten first

396
00:14:30,310 --> 00:14:28,639
but i'm looking forward to the next time

397
00:14:32,949 --> 00:14:30,320
that i see something

398
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:32,959
unexplainable i wonder what my response

399
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:45,519
will be that time

400
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:47,040
i started listening to ono ross and

401
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:48,880
carrie shortly after i broke my arm

402
00:16:00,470 --> 00:14:50,639
and the doctor had told me i'd never

403
00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:01,910
just a podcast it doesn't do anything

404
00:16:06,829 --> 00:16:03,040
it's just sounds you listen to in your

405
00:16:06,839 --> 00:16:10,400
goodbye

406
00:16:10,410 --> 00:16:16,310
[Music]

407
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:19,189
now we continue our interesting trip in

408
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:21,040
our time machine through the pages of

409
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:23,040
australian newspapers and periodicals

410
00:16:30,430 --> 00:16:24,320
and journals

411
00:16:33,269 --> 00:16:32,140
trove.nla.gov dot a u

412
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:33,279
[Music]

413
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:34,720
in the past we've been looking for

414
00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:37,279
yowie's and clairvoyance

415
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:39,519
and ufos but this week i thought we'd

416
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:40,959
look for

417
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:44,000
listings or articles with the word

418
00:16:47,350 --> 00:16:47,040
ouija now the ouija board is a classic

419
00:16:50,629 --> 00:16:47,360
of

420
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:50,639
spiritualism and mysticism and psychic

421
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:51,440
goings

422
00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:54,480
on as you probably well no it's the

423
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:56,320
large board with letters and numbers on

424
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:57,040
it

425
00:17:01,749 --> 00:17:00,079
and a device called a planchette which

426
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:01,759
is a pointing device is placed on the

427
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:02,800
board

428
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,720
and four or five people put their

429
00:17:08,949 --> 00:17:06,559
fingers on this planchette

430
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:08,959
and mysteriously the planchette will

431
00:17:12,309 --> 00:17:09,760
move

432
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:12,319
and spell out uh letters or indicate

433
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:13,600
numbers or things like this

434
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:17,199
yes no and it's long

435
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,400
been uh realized that

436
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:22,319
this is all part of the idiom motor

437
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:26,000
action where people will subconsciously

438
00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:28,640
uh direct the plant yet and it's quite

439
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:30,080
interesting when there are

440
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:33,200
four or five people working together

441
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:33,679
without

442
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,440
realizing it to make the planchette move

443
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:37,440
around although i must admit

444
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:42,240
i did go to one event in a graveyard

445
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:45,200
where there was a ouija board and

446
00:17:48,789 --> 00:17:46,080
nothing was really

447
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:48,799
happening until a certain person came

448
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:50,080
along from the

449
00:17:53,669 --> 00:17:52,000
ghost hunting party and suddenly the

450
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:53,679
ouija board started to spell out all

451
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:55,280
sorts of things so

452
00:17:58,549 --> 00:17:57,919
make of that what you will so searching

453
00:18:03,510 --> 00:17:58,559
for the

454
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:03,520
word ouija which is o-u-i-j-a

455
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:05,600
which it said it's the combination of

456
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:07,039
the words for yes

457
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:13,750
and probably it's referred to as a we

458
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:15,360
are board somewhere along the way

459
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:18,480
anyway and now our search continues

460
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:22,080
and we land in the year 1944

461
00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:25,600
the 31st of december and the sunday

462
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:26,160
times

463
00:18:32,789 --> 00:18:29,840
from perth western australia the ouija

464
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:32,799
comes back in america in spite of air

465
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:33,600
mail and

466
00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:36,480
v-mail i wonder what female is someone

467
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:37,360
look that up

468
00:18:43,510 --> 00:18:40,559
many americans have sought the aid of

469
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:43,520
the ouija as a speedy and exciting

470
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:44,240
method

471
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:46,799
of wartime communication in the first

472
00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:48,640
six months of 1944

473
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:51,440
one new york department store alone sold

474
00:18:55,430 --> 00:18:52,080
more than

475
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:55,440
50 000 ouija boards to customers demand

476
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:56,000
in the

477
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:59,280
previous year was only small the ouija

478
00:19:03,110 --> 00:18:59,760
board

479
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:03,120
created in 1892 did not

480
00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:06,880
win notoriety until the first world war

481
00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:09,440
the ouija itself the name is derived

482
00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:10,880
from the french we

483
00:19:14,789 --> 00:19:13,840
and the german yah both meaning yes is a

484
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:14,799
flat board

485
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:17,919
the size of a breakfast tray across it

486
00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:19,600
are written the alphabet

487
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:22,559
the numbers from one to ten and words

488
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:23,679
yes and no

489
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:26,960
two players face each other the board

490
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:28,640
resting upon their knees

491
00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:31,520
their fingertips are placed lightly on

492
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:32,720
the edges of

493
00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:35,760
a small heart-shaped piece of wood the

494
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:36,880
planchette

495
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:40,480
mounted on three legs when a question is

496
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:43,120
asked this chordate frame moves about

497
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:44,000
the board

498
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:45,840
stopping at certain letters and numbers

499
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:48,720
spelling the words of the answer

500
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:52,320
its inventors william fluid a baltimore

501
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:55,280
toy manufacturer and his brother isaac

502
00:20:00,630 --> 00:19:58,080
explained when they applied for a patent

503
00:20:02,549 --> 00:20:00,640
that after a question is asked the

504
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:02,559
involuntary muscular action of the

505
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:03,200
players

506
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:05,520
or sometimes other agency will cause the

507
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:06,240
frame

508
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,640
to commence to move across the table

509
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:10,559
ouija addicts ignore this

510
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:13,280
muscular interpretation and stick for

511
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,960
explanation to the

512
00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:17,760
other agency and although scientists

513
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:18,320
have

514
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:21,200
discovered that the planchette's erratic

515
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:23,200
activities are frequently due to the

516
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:25,520
thought transference of one of the

517
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:26,400
players

518
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:28,799
staunch supporters won't admit such

519
00:20:34,149 --> 00:20:30,240
materialism

520
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:34,159
the ouija to them is spiritualistic

521
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:37,679
even if painted it today

522
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,760
as in 1918 planchette patronizers tell

523
00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:43,440
of the ouijas

524
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:46,480
prophecies of the world situation

525
00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:50,240
occasionally ouija exhibits a tremendous

526
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:53,679
and profound vocabulary others have a

527
00:20:58,710 --> 00:20:56,799
pluckish sense of humor one board after

528
00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:58,720
being plagued at length over a simple

529
00:21:02,390 --> 00:20:59,360
question

530
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:02,400
reported what morons you are why don't

531
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:04,159
you use some sense

532
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:08,080
another at 2am after a grueling session

533
00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:11,280
is said to have spelt out excitedly

534
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:15,039
ah go to bed i'm sick of this

535
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:17,679
now that is an interesting report from

536
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:19,360
the

537
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:36,480
on page 13 we see concern

538
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:40,480
over a cult dabbling ouija board use

539
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:44,400
led to haunting sydney wednesday

540
00:21:48,149 --> 00:21:47,600
strange noises flying objects and broken

541
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:48,159
windows

542
00:21:55,430 --> 00:21:51,200
mysteriously occurred in a sydney house

543
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:55,440
after a woman began using a ouija board

544
00:22:02,630 --> 00:21:58,559
an independent witness saw a knife

545
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:02,640
a plate an ash tray and a cake of soap

546
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:06,000
fly through the air but after a prayer

547
00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:08,159
in the house for the removal

548
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:10,840
of a spirit the mysterious

549
00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:12,159
manifestations

550
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:15,679
disappeared the case of the house

551
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:18,559
possession by an unseen presence is

552
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:20,400
detailed in the report

553
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:23,600
of an anglican commission of inquiry

554
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:26,320
into the occult established by

555
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:28,320
archbishop of sydney the most

556
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:31,200
reverent marcus lone last year the

557
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:31,840
commission

558
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:34,799
reported widespread fascination with the

559
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:35,520
occult

560
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:38,480
among young people throughout australia

561
00:22:43,510 --> 00:22:40,559
it recommended a ban

562
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:43,520
on the sale of ouija boards tarot cards

563
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:44,880
and occult material

564
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:48,640
sold in news agents and toy shops

565
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:51,679
house was possessed and

566
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:54,000
it called for government control to

567
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:56,720
ensure that harmful books on the occult

568
00:23:01,830 --> 00:22:59,760
could not fall into the hands of minors

569
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:01,840
in its report the commission said the

570
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:03,120
case of the

571
00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:05,760
haunted house occurred in a suburb on

572
00:23:09,909 --> 00:23:07,200
the outskirts of sydney

573
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:09,919
while the inquiry was being concluded

574
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:11,760
completely independent witnesses

575
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:13,919
including a police officer

576
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:16,880
reported unexplainable noises flying

577
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:17,520
objects

578
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:20,320
and apparent attempts by an unseen

579
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:21,280
presence

580
00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:23,520
to force the residents out of the

581
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:25,200
haunted house

582
00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:27,600
one witness told the commission the

583
00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:28,480
trouble began

584
00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:30,400
after a woman living in the house began

585
00:23:35,830 --> 00:23:33,679
to ask questions of a ouija board

586
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:35,840
strange noises were heard in the house

587
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:38,240
at night and the police were called

588
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:40,240
on several occasions to find their

589
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:43,279
source a witness told the commission

590
00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:46,000
at first i was skeptical thinking the

591
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:47,760
noises were caused by the mother

592
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:50,720
or her children or neighbouring children

593
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:52,960
but after examining the house from top

594
00:23:56,870 --> 00:23:53,760
to bottom

595
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:56,880
with a friend we found there could be

596
00:24:01,669 --> 00:24:00,480
no explanation other than the house was

597
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:01,679
possessed

598
00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:04,080
things started to happen while we were

599
00:24:07,029 --> 00:24:04,799
there

600
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:07,039
we saw a knife fly through the air a

601
00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:09,279
plate an ash tray a cake of soap flew

602
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:10,480
through the air

603
00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:13,120
and broke a window the commission found

604
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:14,240
evidence that many

605
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:16,799
thousands of young people and troubled

606
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:17,520
people

607
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:20,080
had been led into a deep fascination and

608
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:22,000
reliance upon

609
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:25,200
astrology ouija board questions

610
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:28,080
this fascination has in some cases led

611
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:29,279
to a kind of

612
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:32,080
fatalism reading every occurrence is

613
00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:34,640
something foreign by the movement of the

614
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:35,520
stars

615
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:38,480
and outside human control it's said such

616
00:24:43,750 --> 00:24:40,799
an attitude can lead to a loss of

617
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:43,760
any sense of responsibility for personal

618
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:44,480
actions

619
00:24:50,789 --> 00:24:48,080
but much more serious was the delving

620
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:50,799
into the world of satan through

621
00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:52,000
necromancy and

622
00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:55,679
fortune telling possession by demons

623
00:25:01,510 --> 00:24:59,039
calling up the dead once a party trick

624
00:25:02,230 --> 00:25:01,520
was today considered an important

625
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:02,240
commitment

626
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:04,559
which governed the lives of many people

627
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:06,080
the commission believed

628
00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:09,200
the devotion to necromancy has

629
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:12,559
developed alarmingly in some cases

630
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:14,159
children have been encouraged

631
00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:17,360
to become mediums and the lives of

632
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:19,679
whole family groups have been dominated

633
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:20,880
by seances

634
00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:23,919
and ouija board forecasts it said

635
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:26,400
sometimes serious psychiatric disorder

636
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:27,120
has followed

637
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:30,480
the final and worst result of dabbling

638
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:33,360
with the occult for some people was

639
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:34,320
demonic

640
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:37,760
possession that phenomenon was now being

641
00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:38,960
recognized by some

642
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:42,159
psychiatrists as a unique illness

643
00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:45,360
one which could only be cured by

644
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:48,159
exorcism properly carried out by persons

645
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:50,159
who knew what they were doing

646
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:52,080
the commission said it was unnecessary

647
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:54,000
to appoint diocesan

648
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:56,559
exorcists but every parish clergyman

649
00:25:59,110 --> 00:25:58,400
should be aware of the ways of helping

650
00:26:02,789 --> 00:25:59,120
those who

651
00:26:05,990 --> 00:26:02,799
got involved with the occult

652
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:06,000
and the story continues student interest

653
00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:09,200
sydney wednesday half of sydney's high

654
00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:10,000
school students

655
00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:12,559
have had dealings with the occult and

656
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,919
satanism

657
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:15,600
and a quarter of the students say

658
00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:16,960
something of a

659
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:19,679
violent nature has occurred at seances

660
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:20,960
they have attended

661
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:23,120
the findings parallel surveys in

662
00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:24,400
adelaide and brisbane

663
00:26:29,350 --> 00:26:26,640
which found that some students became

664
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:29,360
deeply involved in witchcraft

665
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:32,080
and black masses the report of the

666
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:32,960
inquiry

667
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:35,600
said an adelaide survey found that more

668
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:38,400
than half of high school students had

669
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:41,360
been to a seance some were deeply

670
00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:43,120
involved in witchcraft

671
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:45,919
black magic and black masses in

672
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:47,120
cemeteries

673
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:50,000
a brisbane survey reported on bad

674
00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:52,960
psychological effects from dabbling

675
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:55,919
in the occult these findings were backed

676
00:27:00,310 --> 00:26:56,880
up by a poll

677
00:27:01,269 --> 00:27:00,320
of 965 sydney high school students by

678
00:27:03,990 --> 00:27:01,279
the commission

679
00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:04,000
as part of its report half the students

680
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:04,840
believed in

681
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:08,159
satan and had played at

682
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:11,360
contacting spirits half had attended

683
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:12,400
seances

684
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:14,559
though they had been warned they were

685
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:15,840
dangerous

686
00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:18,240
on the average female participation was

687
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:20,159
almost twice as high

688
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:23,360
as male participation and finally

689
00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:25,600
on the same page so remember this is

690
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:29,039
from the camera times 1975.

691
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:31,440
we have the story tarot cards out of

692
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:32,720
demand

693
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:34,399
with a picture of a ouija board at the

694
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:35,840
top a ouija board

695
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:38,480
now said in sydney to be out of demand

696
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:39,120
sydney

697
00:27:46,389 --> 00:27:44,159
and wholesalers reported today that both

698
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:46,399
tarot cards and ouija boards were out of

699
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:47,440
demand

700
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:50,320
and out of stock the sales manager of a

701
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:52,480
leading sydney toy wholesaling and

702
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:54,000
importing business

703
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:57,760
mr merv any climb said locally made

704
00:28:01,110 --> 00:28:00,000
ouija boards went out of stock about two

705
00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:01,120
years ago

706
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:02,960
there was a call for them about two

707
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:04,960
years ago when they were selling for

708
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:06,960
about four or five dollars

709
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:10,480
but that's died down he said it's a game

710
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:11,760
playing the ouija board

711
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:14,000
i don't agree with what the anglican

712
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:16,640
church inquiry has stated i don't think

713
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:18,080
they're any more dangerous than

714
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:20,799
any other game you could have a shooting

715
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:23,039
over a game like monopoly

716
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:24,640
just like you could over many other

717
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:27,679
games mr peter borum a toy dealer

718
00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:30,320
said his wholesaler had not had tarot

719
00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:31,840
cards available for

720
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:34,159
the last 12 months they were imported

721
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:35,200
anyway

722
00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:38,480
and weren't good sellers he said mostly

723
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:39,760
adults bought them

724
00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:42,960
but never any children mrs k steen

725
00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:46,159
of the toy villa rose bay said tarot

726
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:48,640
cards were a popular fad about three

727
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:49,360
years ago

728
00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:52,320
when a james bond film which showed

729
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:52,960
tarot

730
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:55,600
readings came to sydney and that would

731
00:28:59,269 --> 00:28:56,880
have been

732
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:59,279
live and let die with roger moore we had

733
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:00,480
a lot of people then

734
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:03,120
coming in with requests for a game which

735
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:03,760
was put

736
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:06,399
out after the film and it contained

737
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:08,640
tarot cards inside the box

738
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:11,840
she said but personally and not for

739
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:13,360
religious reasons

740
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:15,919
i'm against tarot cards or ouija boards

741
00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:16,799
being sold in

742
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:19,440
toy shops i don't think they're what you

743
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:20,159
could call

744
00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:23,360
toys they would be better off sold

745
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:26,480
in a trick or magic shop

746
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:28,320
if i were offered them as part of a

747
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:30,320
sales line i'd refuse

748
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:31,250
point blank

749
00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:40,230
so there we are and those are but a few

750
00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:42,960
of the reports that uh were returned

751
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:44,960
when i typed in the word ouija into the

752
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:45,440
search

753
00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:48,000
engine in fact there are dozens and

754
00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:50,080
dozens and dozens of references going

755
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:50,480
back

756
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:54,000
decades but i think those ones from 1975

757
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:57,360
are quite interesting so once again the

758
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:59,520
treasure trove that is trove is at your

759
00:30:04,430 --> 00:30:00,480
fingertips

760
00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:06,630
www.trove.nla.gov dot a u

761
00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:23,679
type in your search and away you go

762
00:30:27,029 --> 00:30:26,000
hello this is rob palmer you may have

763
00:30:28,789 --> 00:30:27,039
heard of me

764
00:30:30,549 --> 00:30:28,799
lately i've been interviewing scientists

765
00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:30,559
skeptics and other critical thinkers

766
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:32,240
from around the world for my column in

767
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:33,919
the skeptical inquirer

768
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:40,950
my written interviews have included j

769
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:42,720
novella from the skeptic's guide to the

770
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:43,520
universe

771
00:30:47,029 --> 00:30:45,840
mass psychogenic illness expert robert

772
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:47,039
bartholomew

773
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:49,840
celestia ward from squaring the strange

774
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:50,799
psychic busting

775
00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:53,600
private eye bob nygard skeptical

776
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,320
activist

777
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:56,640
michael marshall of the uk and even

778
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:57,840
secular activists

779
00:31:01,750 --> 00:31:00,080
bailly harris and john delancey that's

780
00:31:03,509 --> 00:31:01,760
cue from star trek

781
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:03,519
i even interviewed believe it or not a

782
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:04,960
magic dragon

783
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:07,440
and another really well known skeptic

784
00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:09,120
richard saunders

785
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:11,200
you can find my online column with these

786
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:12,720
interviews and more

787
00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:15,440
by googling the well-known skeptic plus

788
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:17,360
skeptical inquire

789
00:31:22,010 --> 00:31:19,440
also follow me on facebook at the

790
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:22,020
well-known skeptic

791
00:31:47,220 --> 00:31:30,840
[Music]

792
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:47,230
logical fallacies

793
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:50,799
[Music]

794
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:53,600
what are logical fallacies and why is it

795
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:55,440
important that critical thinkers should

796
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:58,000
know about them

797
00:32:01,990 --> 00:32:00,399
a logical fallacy is an error we can

798
00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:02,000
make in reasoning

799
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:04,000
but it usually crops up when we are

800
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:10,470
some people might even knowingly use

801
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:12,799
them to try and score cheap points in an

802
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:16,960
argument due to intellectual laziness

803
00:32:21,269 --> 00:32:19,440
they are traps we can fall into but if

804
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:21,279
we know what to look out for

805
00:32:28,230 --> 00:32:23,440
we can spot them when they occur and

806
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:28,240
stop ourselves from using them

807
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:30,880
this time we'll look at the burden of

808
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:32,480
proof fallacy

809
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:34,960
this is when instead of presenting

810
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:36,880
evidence to support your claim

811
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:39,840
you insist that the person doubting it

812
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:42,640
prove your claim to be false

813
00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:45,519
this tactic which can seem reasonable to

814
00:32:50,509 --> 00:32:47,600
the one committing the fallacy

815
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:50,519
is heard again and again in skeptical

816
00:32:56,230 --> 00:32:52,159
investigations

817
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:56,240
it's a sort of get out of jail free card

818
00:33:00,870 --> 00:32:59,039
and gives the person making the claim a

819
00:33:02,350 --> 00:33:00,880
quick way to appear to stump the

820
00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:02,360
skeptics

821
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:05,200
particularly by asking the skeptic to

822
00:33:09,669 --> 00:33:06,960
disprove something

823
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:09,679
instead of providing evidence to support

824
00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:12,080
the claim being made

825
00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:14,080
i'll never forget the night i was

826
00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:16,159
abducted by aliens

827
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:18,080
i was driving in the countryside when

828
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:21,360
they beamed me up to their spaceship

829
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:24,799
two hours later i was back in my car

830
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:28,880
no one from police to so-called skeptics

831
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:32,640
have been able to prove it didn't happen

832
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:35,200
this situation is very familiar to

833
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:37,840
skeptical investigators

834
00:33:41,190 --> 00:33:40,480
if the person in question had more to

835
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:41,200
the claim

836
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:44,720
than just his story maybe a fragment of

837
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:47,760
alien technology he wouldn't need to

838
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:48,559
worry about

839
00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:52,080
others not being able to disprove it

840
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:55,039
this new drug to fight coronavirus is

841
00:33:58,710 --> 00:33:55,440
just

842
00:34:01,990 --> 00:33:58,720
amazing it's all natural and

843
00:34:03,029 --> 00:34:02,000
made from a rare moss only found in the

844
00:34:05,909 --> 00:34:03,039
amazon

845
00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:05,919
i've seen it work for myself and unless

846
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:08,240
the government can prove otherwise

847
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:10,480
it must be rolled out as soon as

848
00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:11,679
possible

849
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:14,560
no matter how appealing it is to think a

850
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:15,599
new drug

851
00:34:18,829 --> 00:34:18,000
or even a modality of alternative

852
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:18,839
medicine

853
00:34:24,470 --> 00:34:21,919
works it must first go through the

854
00:34:27,190 --> 00:34:24,480
rigorous scientific trials and tests

855
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:27,200
to show it does in fact work that's

856
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:30,159
where the burden of evidence lies

857
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:34,079
and by the way any alternative medicine

858
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:36,720
that does past scientific trials and

859
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:37,679
tests

860
00:34:44,069 --> 00:34:40,720
that is is actually shown to work

861
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:44,079
is no longer called alternative medicine

862
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:47,359
it's called medicine i

863
00:34:52,470 --> 00:34:50,399
had an amazing reading with a medium who

864
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:52,480
contacted the spirit of my dead

865
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:53,359
grandmother

866
00:34:59,349 --> 00:34:56,960
and told me things only she would know

867
00:35:00,230 --> 00:34:59,359
how can you prove that it wasn't really

868
00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:00,240
her

869
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:03,280
coming through ultimately no one can

870
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:04,400
prove the medium

871
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:07,119
didn't contact the dead grandmother but

872
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:08,320
then again

873
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:10,320
no one can prove it wasn't another

874
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:13,119
spirit pretending to be the grandmother

875
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:15,839
or a tricky alien from another dimension

876
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:17,760
pretending to be the grandmother

877
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:22,240
and on and on what we can do

878
00:35:27,349 --> 00:35:25,119
if the reading was recorded for example

879
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:27,359
is to walk the person through

880
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:30,000
what was said pointing out the cold and

881
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:32,000
hot reading tricks that may have been

882
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:38,310
remember that the burden of proof always

883
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:40,880
lies with the one making the claim

884
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:43,280
and asking them for evidence is an

885
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:46,960
entirely reasonable request

886
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:49,520
while it is possible sometimes to indeed

887
00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:50,000
prove

888
00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:53,119
something didn't happen many times it is

889
00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:54,640
not

890
00:36:02,390 --> 00:35:58,960
is real

891
00:36:04,990 --> 00:36:02,400
as dr carl sagan famously said

892
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:05,000
extraordinary claims require

893
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:06,160
extraordinary

894
00:36:15,349 --> 00:36:12,790
knowing a logical fallacy when you hear

895
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:15,359
one and even knowing its name

896
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:17,599
is important when arguing your point of

897
00:36:22,390 --> 00:36:18,960
view

898
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:22,400
however you may come across as arrogant

899
00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:24,800
and not get very far if you call it out

900
00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:25,599
by name

901
00:36:30,069 --> 00:36:28,000
to your opponent when you hear it being

902
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:30,079
used

903
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:32,560
if your opponent calls you out for using

904
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:33,359
one

905
00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:35,599
it's time to stop and think about how

906
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:38,720
you are making your case

907
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:40,800
use your knowledge of logical fallacies

908
00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:42,000
wisely

909
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:44,800
and remember that even if your point of

910
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:46,000
view is right

911
00:36:49,589 --> 00:36:48,320
and you know all the pitfalls in arguing

912
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:49,599
your case

913
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:52,079
it doesn't always mean you'll win on the

914
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:53,280
day

915
00:36:59,130 --> 00:36:56,560
and as skeptics we must also remember

916
00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:59,140
that we too can be wrong at times

917
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:02,160
[Music]

918
00:37:08,500 --> 00:37:03,920
i'm michelle bickersma from the vic

919
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:08,510
skeptics thanks for listening

920
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:21,190
[Music]

921
00:37:26,710 --> 00:37:23,920
appearing at skepticon 2020 the

922
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:26,720
australian skeptics national convention

923
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:30,480
dr karl krzelnisky

924
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:33,280
dr karl krzelniski just loves science to

925
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:34,079
pieces

926
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:36,640
his media career spans more than 30

927
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:37,359
years

928
00:37:41,910 --> 00:37:40,240
talking about science in radio tv

929
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:41,920
podcasts newspapers

930
00:37:45,829 --> 00:37:45,119
and books 45 to date with more on the

931
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:45,839
way

932
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:48,800
his accolades range from the ignoble

933
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:50,720
prize from harvard university

934
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:53,440
for his groundbreaking research into

935
00:37:58,069 --> 00:37:54,720
belly button fluff

936
00:38:00,870 --> 00:37:58,079
and why it is almost always blue

937
00:38:02,310 --> 00:38:00,880
to being one of australia's 100 national

938
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:02,320
living treasures

939
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:05,520
in 2019 the united nations awarded dr

940
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:06,320
carl

941
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:08,880
the unesco kalinga prize for the

942
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:10,800
popularization of science

943
00:38:14,470 --> 00:38:13,440
the prize is a global recognition of dr

944
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:14,480
carl's gift

945
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:16,800
for communication he is the first

946
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:18,960
australian to win the prize

947
00:38:24,310 --> 00:38:22,000
a lifetime student dr karl has degrees

948
00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:24,320
in physics and mathematics biomedical

949
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:25,200
engineering

950
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:28,480
medicine and surgery he has worked as a

951
00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:29,200
physicist

952
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:31,680
labourer roadie for bands car mechanic

953
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:32,640
filmmaker

954
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,839
biomedical engineer tv weatherman and

955
00:38:38,950 --> 00:38:37,440
medical doctor at the children's

956
00:38:41,589 --> 00:38:38,960
hospital in sydney

957
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:41,599
since 1995 he has been the julius

958
00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:42,880
subnamilla fellow

959
00:38:46,550 --> 00:38:45,680
at the university of sydney where his

960
00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:46,560
mission

961
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:49,359
is to spread the good word about science

962
00:38:53,430 --> 00:38:50,960
and its benefits

963
00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:53,440
dr karl kruszelnisky just one of the

964
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:55,760
speakers at skepticon 2020

965
00:38:59,510 --> 00:38:57,359
the australian skeptics national

966
00:39:03,829 --> 00:38:59,520
convention for more information and

967
00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:03,839
tickets visit www.skepticon.org

968
00:39:18,270 --> 00:39:14,880
dot a u

969
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:18,280
and now a reading from the book of tim

970
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:21,040
[Music]

971
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:29,280
with tim mendham

972
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:31,280
hi my name is tim menden i'm the

973
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:32,720
executive officer for australian

974
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:33,839
skeptics inc

975
00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:35,359
and i'm editor of our magazine the

976
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:37,760
skeptic and today's book of tim is

977
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:38,960
coming from the skeptic

978
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,119
june 2018 which is volume 38

979
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:45,359
number two and i'm reading from the

980
00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:48,079
regular column called what goes around

981
00:39:51,510 --> 00:39:50,240
which starts off at a certain particular

982
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:51,520
fact or set of facts and

983
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:53,760
makes its way through associated facts

984
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:55,839
until it ends up where it started from

985
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:57,359
it shows that all knowledge

986
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:00,880
is connected and connectable this time

987
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:04,000
i'll be looking at yetis yale smuggling

988
00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:10,130
and shooting

989
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:12,800
[Music]

990
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:15,280
in 1957 the government of nepal issued

991
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:16,240
regulations

992
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:18,720
limiting interaction with yetis known

993
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:20,319
locally as maytay

994
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:24,400
manbear in 1959 the u.s foreign service

995
00:40:27,829 --> 00:40:25,119
reissued

996
00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:27,839
these regulations in a memo titled

997
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:29,680
regulations governing mountain climbing

998
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:30,560
expeditions

999
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:34,079
to nepal relating to yeti the nepalese

1000
00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:35,839
government basically wanted

1001
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:39,119
5 000 rupees for a permit to carry out

1002
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:41,599
an expedition in search of yeti

1003
00:40:44,790 --> 00:40:43,920
the yeti can be quote photographed or

1004
00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:44,800
caught alive

1005
00:40:49,270 --> 00:40:47,200
but it must not be killed or shot at

1006
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:49,280
except in an emergency arising out of

1007
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:50,960
self-defense

1008
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:53,280
and news and reports throwing light on

1009
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:55,280
the actual existence of the creature

1010
00:40:59,109 --> 00:40:56,880
must be submitted to the government of

1011
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:59,119
nepal and must not in any way be

1012
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:00,400
released to the media

1013
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:04,079
without permission it's largely because

1014
00:41:07,829 --> 00:41:06,000
the previous decade had seen a flurry of

1015
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:07,839
activity but the history of yeti hunting

1016
00:41:13,829 --> 00:41:10,640
by foreigners goes back a long way

1017
00:41:15,430 --> 00:41:13,839
in the late 1890s explorers in nepal who

1018
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:15,440
used to have to pose as religious

1019
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:16,480
pilgrims

1020
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:19,680
started reporting on the beast in 1921

1021
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:21,760
the everest reconnaissance expedition

1022
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:24,400
noted strange tracks in the snow a

1023
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:26,079
journalist for the calcutta statesman

1024
00:41:29,349 --> 00:41:26,880
interviewed

1025
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:29,359
the porters for that expedition he

1026
00:41:33,829 --> 00:41:31,040
mistranslated maytay

1027
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:33,839
to mean filthy and coined the term

1028
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:36,160
abominable snowman

1029
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:39,359
in the 1950s eric shipton

1030
00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:41,200
attempting everest took the first

1031
00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:43,280
pictures of yeti tracks

1032
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:46,319
in 1953 edmund hillary came across

1033
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:48,240
strange tracks during his successful

1034
00:41:52,790 --> 00:41:49,440
ascent of everest

1035
00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:52,800
with tensing nogge tracks and even the

1036
00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:54,160
creature itself

1037
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:56,640
were regularly cited as more and more

1038
00:41:58,950 --> 00:41:57,359
westerners

1039
00:42:01,030 --> 00:41:58,960
made their attempts on the tallest

1040
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:01,040
mountain in the world

1041
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:04,079
in 1954 the uk daily mail

1042
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:07,359
funded a 16-week snowman expedition

1043
00:42:11,109 --> 00:42:09,440
to everest to look for clues but the

1044
00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:11,119
really big yeti hunter

1045
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:13,920
in the late 1950s was american oil

1046
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:14,880
millionaire

1047
00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:18,319
and cryptozoology enthusiast tom slick

1048
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:22,480
who lived from 1916 to 1962.

1049
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:24,560
slick's eccentric life would frankly

1050
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:25,520
make a great film

1051
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:28,800
in fact one was first announced in 1996

1052
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:31,440
titled tom's slick monster hunter with

1053
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:34,000
nicolas cage in the title role

1054
00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:35,920
but he has been in development hell as

1055
00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:38,560
they call it ever since

1056
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:40,720
slick's father thomas lichtsteiner was

1057
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:42,000
known as dry hull

1058
00:42:47,750 --> 00:42:45,119
tom for his significant lack of success

1059
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:47,760
in oil prospecting he finally did hit

1060
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:48,480
pay dirt

1061
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:50,960
but died young leaving a vast fortune to

1062
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:51,839
his family

1063
00:42:56,069 --> 00:42:54,240
thus funding tom junior's exciting

1064
00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:56,079
adventures

1065
00:43:00,550 --> 00:42:58,720
tom slick jr attended yale expanded the

1066
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:00,560
family business co-established the first

1067
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:02,160
cargo air freight service

1068
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:03,599
poured money into scientific

1069
00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:06,000
philanthropy he supported the southwest

1070
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:07,359
research institute

1071
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:09,359
started the mind science foundation to

1072
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:11,440
explore strange consciousness and mental

1073
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,240
powers

1074
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:14,960
and campaign for world peace while in

1075
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:15,440
india

1076
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:16,880
he met a man who could seemingly

1077
00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:19,280
levitate and teleport himself

1078
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:20,960
slick thought that levitation could be a

1079
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:24,000
huge boon to the construction business

1080
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:26,160
as an aside when slick's father died his

1081
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:27,119
mother married

1082
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:29,200
slick's former partner who had

1083
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:30,800
previously been married to slick

1084
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:32,800
senior's sister

1085
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,640
this man was kidnapped by machine gun

1086
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:36,319
kelly and coined the term

1087
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:39,599
g-men for the fbi agents who rescued him

1088
00:43:43,990 --> 00:43:42,720
okay back to sleek slick jr was obsessed

1089
00:43:45,430 --> 00:43:44,000
with searching for cryptids

1090
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:45,440
he traveled through nepal looking for

1091
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:47,839
the yeti but without much luck

1092
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:49,520
following an injury in a bus accident

1093
00:43:53,510 --> 00:43:51,680
his mother insisted he stayed home

1094
00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:53,520
and from then on he funded expeditions

1095
00:43:59,829 --> 00:43:55,839
rather than participated

1096
00:44:01,750 --> 00:43:59,839
one such was to acquire the pangos hand

1097
00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:01,760
which legend had was a mummified yeti

1098
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:04,160
hand from a buddhist monastery

1099
00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:06,720
he convinced the actor jimmy stewart to

1100
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:08,560
smuggle some fingers from the hand to

1101
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:09,200
england

1102
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:12,480
in mrs stewart's lingerie case special

1103
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:14,560
effects company weta workshop

1104
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:16,079
co-founded by film director peter

1105
00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:17,839
jackson an inmate lord of the rings

1106
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,839
later made a facsimile for the monastery

1107
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:23,760
unable to return to nepal slick

1108
00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:25,920
concentrated on searches for bigfoot

1109
00:44:30,550 --> 00:44:28,480
in the pacific northwest of the usa

1110
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:30,560
during his initial searches for the yeti

1111
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:32,800
he had wanted to shoot one but gradually

1112
00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:34,480
changed his mind to only photographing

1113
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:35,520
the beast

1114
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:37,920
not that he ever did he died in a plane

1115
00:44:41,589 --> 00:44:39,760
crash age 46

1116
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:41,599
since then several jurisdictions have

1117
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:44,240
specifically outlawed shooting bigfoot

1118
00:44:48,309 --> 00:44:45,920
beginning with skamania county in

1119
00:44:49,109 --> 00:44:48,319
washington which declared the area a

1120
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:49,119
sasquatch

1121
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:51,760
refuge california and oregon followed

1122
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:52,640
suit slick was

1123
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:54,560
born in texas so it is ironic that the

1124
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:56,560
chief of staff of the texas parks

1125
00:45:01,270 --> 00:44:58,400
and wildlife department law enforcement

1126
00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:01,280
division said in 2012 that is legal to

1127
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:02,640
kill bigfoot

1128
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:04,480
since it isn't listed by the state as a

1129
00:45:07,510 --> 00:45:06,720
game animal nor is it an endangered

1130
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:07,520
animal

1131
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:10,720
unlike the government of nepal which

1132
00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:12,960
brings us back to where we started

1133
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:15,200
that's what goes around for the skeptic

1134
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:23,990
and you can read the skeptic on our

1135
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:26,160
website skeptics.com

1136
00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:29,359
look back for 39 years of past issues

1137
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:31,040
and i'm sure you'll enjoy them and once

1138
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:32,400
you've done that you'll subscribe to the

1139
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:47,280
magazine won't you

1140
00:45:50,710 --> 00:45:49,680
the skeptic the journal from australian

1141
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:50,720
skeptics

1142
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:52,720
subscribe online to the world's second

1143
00:45:59,030 --> 00:45:55,119
oldest skeptical magazine

1144
00:46:01,910 --> 00:45:59,040
just visit www.skeptics.com

1145
00:46:02,870 --> 00:46:01,920
and click the magazine link there you

1146
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:02,880
will also find

1147
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:06,240
free to download almost 40 years of back

1148
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:07,040
issues

1149
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:09,359
the skeptic the journal from australian

1150
00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:10,160
skeptics

1151
00:46:13,589 --> 00:46:12,480
available as a physical copy or as a

1152
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:13,599
digital copy

1153
00:46:41,270 --> 00:46:39,750
[Music]

1154
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:41,280
now it's time to check in once again

1155
00:46:44,069 --> 00:46:42,960
with the australian skeptics via their

1156
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:44,079
newsletter

1157
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:51,440
tim mendem and it starts hi all

1158
00:46:56,309 --> 00:46:53,920
the ongoing saga that is the covet

1159
00:46:59,190 --> 00:46:56,319
pandemic is distressing enough

1160
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:59,200
even for those areas where infection

1161
00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:00,480
rates are low

1162
00:47:04,630 --> 00:47:02,880
but the vision of irrational conspiracy

1163
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:04,640
theorists putting the population at

1164
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:06,319
increased risk

1165
00:47:09,750 --> 00:47:08,880
because of their selfishness and

1166
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:09,760
paranoia

1167
00:47:16,390 --> 00:47:12,960
is just plain infuriating if not

1168
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:16,400
also perplexing and it says have a look

1169
00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:18,319
at this sample article from the skeptic

1170
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:20,480
for a story of just some of those

1171
00:47:25,510 --> 00:47:23,040
who drag in woo and misinformation to

1172
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:25,520
further their campaigns

1173
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:27,520
and that is a link to a pdf which brings

1174
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:29,280
you some pages of the current skeptic

1175
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:30,480
magazine

1176
00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:33,520
a feature article sovereign citizens

1177
00:47:40,630 --> 00:47:37,680
id naysayers tim mendenham looks at

1178
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:40,640
self-appointed experts and karen's and

1179
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:41,599
kevin's

1180
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:44,800
of the anti-covert brigade so that's

1181
00:47:49,270 --> 00:47:47,760
there for you to read if you so wish

1182
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:49,280
in fact i will link to that in this

1183
00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:51,040
week's show notes

1184
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:53,440
but the newsletter goes on okay it's

1185
00:47:55,910 --> 00:47:55,440
still only a relatively small number of

1186
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:55,920
people

1187
00:47:59,910 --> 00:47:58,160
but it makes you wonder if a

1188
00:48:03,030 --> 00:47:59,920
lord-of-the-fly scenario

1189
00:48:03,510 --> 00:48:03,040
where society's veneer of civility and

1190
00:48:06,630 --> 00:48:03,520
reason

1191
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:06,640
can collapse so easily and quickly he's

1192
00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:08,319
just lying around the corner

1193
00:48:12,309 --> 00:48:10,720
skeptics have always known that there is

1194
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:12,319
a layer of woo merchants in their

1195
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:14,160
followers in every society

1196
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:17,040
if it weren't so dangerous seeing them

1197
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:18,640
expose themselves so

1198
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:21,920
readily would just be plain sad

1199
00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:24,240
thank heavens for ghost stories and

1200
00:48:29,030 --> 00:48:25,760
psychic horses

1201
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:29,040
to brighten up our days read on

1202
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:31,920
we shall read on the first item here

1203
00:48:36,710 --> 00:48:33,520
reminds us all about the

1204
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:36,720
skepticon convention coming up october

1205
00:48:42,549 --> 00:48:38,960
the 24th through the 25th

1206
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:42,559
at skepticon.org dot a u

1207
00:48:46,390 --> 00:48:45,200
and then we move along to australian

1208
00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:46,400
skeptics 2

1209
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:48,559
000 prize for critical thinking in the

1210
00:48:51,190 --> 00:48:49,599
media

1211
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:51,200
australian skeptics is once again

1212
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:53,280
offering an annual award for skeptical

1213
00:48:57,270 --> 00:48:54,480
journalism

1214
00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:57,280
the barry williams award for skeptical

1215
00:49:02,470 --> 00:48:58,160
journalism

1216
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:02,480
in any medium

1217
00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:04,160
that takes a critical and skeptical

1218
00:49:07,030 --> 00:49:05,920
approach to a topic that falls within

1219
00:49:09,109 --> 00:49:07,040
our remit

1220
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:09,119
which is the scientific investigation of

1221
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:11,200
pseudoscience and the paranormal

1222
00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:14,079
it is awarded annually with a citation

1223
00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:14,400
and

1224
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:18,640
award was given

1225
00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:22,079
in 2018 to news limited journalist jane

1226
00:49:26,790 --> 00:49:22,800
hansen

1227
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:26,800
and the second in 2019 to liam mannix

1228
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:29,760
of the age and sydney morning herald

1229
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:31,520
we're calling for nominations from

1230
00:49:36,150 --> 00:49:33,680
skeptic the public and the media

1231
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:36,160
journalists can nominate their own work

1232
00:49:40,549 --> 00:49:38,640
the item or items nominated should have

1233
00:49:42,549 --> 00:49:40,559
been published posted or broadcast

1234
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:42,559
between december 2019

1235
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:45,599
and september 2020 inclusive

1236
00:49:48,630 --> 00:49:47,839
nominations can be sent to the editor of

1237
00:49:53,990 --> 00:49:48,640
the skeptic

1238
00:49:56,829 --> 00:49:54,000
at editor at skeptics.com.eu

1239
00:49:59,589 --> 00:49:56,839
the deadline is october 11. so there's a

1240
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:59,599
call those of you in australia in the

1241
00:50:02,309 --> 00:50:00,559
media

1242
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:02,319
or if you've read a particularly good

1243
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:03,839
critical uh

1244
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:06,720
journalism in the last year then this

1245
00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:08,000
could well be a way for

1246
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:11,760
the journalists to pick up a 2

1247
00:50:15,829 --> 00:50:15,119
prize the next item says ayurvedic

1248
00:50:18,870 --> 00:50:15,839
healer

1249
00:50:20,710 --> 00:50:18,880
banned in interim order the new south

1250
00:50:22,710 --> 00:50:20,720
wales health care complaints commission

1251
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:22,720
has given an eight-week interim

1252
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:26,160
prohibition order to an ayurvedic healer

1253
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:29,599
rama prasad while it investigates his

1254
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:32,000
prescribing of the ayurvedic

1255
00:50:38,309 --> 00:50:35,119
medication manusamitra

1256
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:38,319
vatika to both children and adults and

1257
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:39,520
about his claims

1258
00:50:43,910 --> 00:50:42,400
that his treatments can reverse several

1259
00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:43,920
aspects

1260
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:47,520
of autism in children the medication was

1261
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:48,480
found to contain

1262
00:50:54,790 --> 00:50:51,839
elevated levels of lead and other

1263
00:50:56,309 --> 00:50:54,800
heavy metals and there's more about that

1264
00:50:58,470 --> 00:50:56,319
story there

1265
00:51:00,309 --> 00:50:58,480
the next story discusses convictions

1266
00:51:02,630 --> 00:51:00,319
based on hypnosis allow for the

1267
00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:02,640
miscarriage of justice

1268
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:05,119
a good discussion on the use of hypnosis

1269
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:07,040
by police and courts in the u.s this

1270
00:51:11,750 --> 00:51:08,480
article links to another

1271
00:51:14,309 --> 00:51:11,760
that looks at repressed memory and the

1272
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,319
problems with eyewitness evidence

1273
00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:16,319
then we have our next item here it says

1274
00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:17,760
skeptic winner

1275
00:51:20,870 --> 00:51:20,160
filmmaker becomes co-author on paper in

1276
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:20,880
science

1277
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:22,880
in an unusual turn of events

1278
00:51:27,990 --> 00:51:24,720
melbourne-based filmmaker

1279
00:51:29,910 --> 00:51:28,000
sonja pemberton who won the skeptics

1280
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:29,920
thornette award for the promotion of

1281
00:51:34,069 --> 00:51:31,520
reason in 2013

1282
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:34,079
has just become a co-author on a paper

1283
00:51:37,510 --> 00:51:35,920
that has just been published in the top

1284
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:37,520
international journal

1285
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:39,920
science and the next item says

1286
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:42,400
scientific american argues against

1287
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:46,160
trump in an unprecedented step

1288
00:51:50,069 --> 00:51:48,480
science publication scientific american

1289
00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:50,079
has launched a scathing attack on

1290
00:51:55,270 --> 00:51:51,760
president donald trump

1291
00:51:58,069 --> 00:51:55,280
and endorsed his opponent democratic

1292
00:51:59,030 --> 00:51:58,079
candidate joe biden in the upcoming u.s

1293
00:52:01,109 --> 00:51:59,040
election

1294
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:01,119
it's the first presidential endorsement

1295
00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:05,200
in the magazine's 175-year history

1296
00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:07,520
this has naturally raised some criticism

1297
00:52:11,829 --> 00:52:09,200
from trump's supporters

1298
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:11,839
though some seem to misunderstand the

1299
00:52:15,589 --> 00:52:12,960
differences between

1300
00:52:16,950 --> 00:52:15,599
a learned society and a scientific

1301
00:52:18,549 --> 00:52:16,960
publication

1302
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,559
and there are some more stories here

1303
00:52:21,990 --> 00:52:20,400
about curved 19

1304
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:22,000
and then we have a picture of the cover

1305
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:23,440
from the very latest issue of the

1306
00:52:25,750 --> 00:52:24,800
skeptic the journal from australian

1307
00:52:28,069 --> 00:52:25,760
skeptics

1308
00:52:28,950 --> 00:52:28,079
and it says the september 2020 issue of

1309
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:28,960
the skeptic

1310
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:31,440
pictured above has hit the streets the

1311
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:32,000
digital

1312
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:33,839
version already in people's virtual

1313
00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:36,000
hands the hard copy in the post this

1314
00:52:38,630 --> 00:52:36,400
week

1315
00:52:40,150 --> 00:52:38,640
it includes a major feature on the

1316
00:52:44,150 --> 00:52:40,160
current trend

1317
00:52:47,109 --> 00:52:44,160
in refusenix sovereign citizens freeman

1318
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:47,119
of the land those who harass retail

1319
00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:49,280
staff to prove how free they are

1320
00:52:53,670 --> 00:52:51,839
and their ilk the history the

1321
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:53,680
constitutional issues the legal and

1322
00:52:58,630 --> 00:52:54,960
health impacts

1323
00:53:00,069 --> 00:52:58,640
who they are and why they do it

1324
00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:00,079
plus the usual banana pee of the

1325
00:53:02,950 --> 00:53:02,079
interesting and the weird the worrisome

1326
00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:02,960
and the fun

1327
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:05,440
including a major retrospective of one

1328
00:53:09,670 --> 00:53:07,119
of australia's premier

1329
00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:09,680
ufo encounters and to round off they

1330
00:53:13,829 --> 00:53:11,920
have a few of the upcoming events

1331
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:13,839
october the 1st sydney skeptics in the

1332
00:53:18,470 --> 00:53:15,200
pub with

1333
00:53:19,750 --> 00:53:18,480
our guest ben radford october the 19th

1334
00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:19,760
at the skeptics cafe

1335
00:53:23,750 --> 00:53:23,200
in victoria dr mark newbrook cancel

1336
00:53:27,510 --> 00:53:23,760
culture

1337
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:27,520
the skeptic's tribalism and free speech

1338
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:29,680
and more links to canberra skeptics gold

1339
00:53:34,250 --> 00:53:32,160
coast skeptics queensland skeptics

1340
00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:34,260
adelaide skeptics and more

1341
00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:37,359
[Music]

1342
00:53:40,950 --> 00:53:38,640
that's the australian skeptic's

1343
00:53:42,790 --> 00:53:40,960
newsletter and you can have that

1344
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:42,800
delivered into your inbox every couple

1345
00:53:49,230 --> 00:53:43,839
of weeks

1346
00:54:07,190 --> 00:53:54,829
[Music]

1347
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:08,790
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1348
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:10,480
zone this week and thank you to michelle

1349
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:11,440
franklin

1350
00:54:18,069 --> 00:54:14,800
michelle bickersma and tim menden for

1351
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:18,079
your segments on the show coming up on

1352
00:54:22,150 --> 00:54:19,599
next week's show hopefully another

1353
00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:22,160
logical fallacy from michelle bickersma

1354
00:54:26,309 --> 00:54:25,040
another segment from the book of tim but

1355
00:54:27,030 --> 00:54:26,319
i don't want to give too much away but

1356
00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:27,040
we should have a

1357
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:29,359
very interesting interview coming your

1358
00:54:32,790 --> 00:54:31,359
way next week on the show

1359
00:54:35,030 --> 00:54:32,800
i don't want to say too much at the

1360
00:54:38,230 --> 00:54:35,040
moment but it's to do

1361
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:38,240
with some shenanigans

1362
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:41,440
in the anti-vaxxer world also soon on

1363
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:43,280
the skeptic zone maybe even next week

1364
00:54:45,750 --> 00:54:43,839
too

1365
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,760
we're going to be interviewing an old

1366
00:54:50,710 --> 00:54:47,440
friend of mine klaus

1367
00:54:54,309 --> 00:54:50,720
larsen from denmark who runs a really

1368
00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:54,319
good uh conspiracy theory website

1369
00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:56,880
lots of good information thank you as

1370
00:55:00,190 --> 00:54:58,400
ever thank you to those people who

1371
00:55:01,910 --> 00:55:00,200
subscribed to the skeptics zone at

1372
00:55:04,950 --> 00:55:01,920
skepticzone.tv

1373
00:55:06,710 --> 00:55:04,960
via patreon or paypal and with the

1374
00:55:08,789 --> 00:55:06,720
australian dollar

1375
00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:08,799
not doing so well it's dipping a little

1376
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:10,640
bit which means that

1377
00:55:14,950 --> 00:55:13,200
uh every month when the patreon money

1378
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:14,960
comes through especially

1379
00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:18,240
uh it operates in my favor

1380
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:20,000
because of the poor state of the dollar

1381
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:22,480
that's if you are subscribing in us

1382
00:55:26,390 --> 00:55:24,559
dollars which many people do

1383
00:55:28,710 --> 00:55:26,400
and if you're not a subscriber to the

1384
00:55:29,030 --> 00:55:28,720
show uh please keep listening please

1385
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:29,040
keep

1386
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:31,440
enjoying it and send a thank you card to

1387
00:55:35,670 --> 00:55:33,520
those people who do subscribe

1388
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:35,680
because it's due to those people that

1389
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:37,040
you are hearing

1390
00:55:43,190 --> 00:55:40,960
the skeptics own thank you people

1391
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:43,200
but for this week this is richard

1392
00:55:50,390 --> 00:55:44,640
saunders signing off

1393
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:52,230
you've been listening to the skeptic

1394
00:55:56,829 --> 00:55:53,680
zone podcast

1395
00:55:58,230 --> 00:55:56,839
please visit our website at

1396
00:56:01,270 --> 00:55:58,240
www.skepticzone.tv

1397
00:56:03,270 --> 00:56:01,280
for show notes contacts and to access

1398
00:56:06,789 --> 00:56:03,280
the back catalogue of episodes

1399
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,799
going back to 2008 you can follow the

1400
00:56:12,309 --> 00:56:08,880
skeptic zone podcast on twitter

1401
00:56:15,910 --> 00:56:12,319
at skepticzone visit our facebook page

1402
00:56:17,270 --> 00:56:15,920
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1403
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:17,280
support the skeptic zone

1404
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:20,480
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1405
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:21,280
podcast

1406
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:24,160
is an independent production the views

1407
00:56:26,390 --> 00:56:25,920
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

1408
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:26,400
zone

1409
00:56:29,589 --> 00:56:28,400
are not necessarily those of australian

1410
00:56:31,970 --> 00:56:29,599
skeptics or

1411
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:31,980
any other skeptical organization

1412
00:56:47,270 --> 00:56:45,589
hello to the afterthoughts the people

1413
00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:47,280
who keep listening after the music if

1414
00:56:51,109 --> 00:56:49,520
you've never heard the show before

1415
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:51,119
and you don't know why you're hearing me

1416
00:56:53,990 --> 00:56:52,720
now because the show's over

1417
00:56:56,309 --> 00:56:54,000
this is the part of the show that

1418
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:56,319
sometimes sometimes it's like an easter

1419
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:57,280
egg

1420
00:57:02,470 --> 00:57:00,480
we roll a ten sided die

1421
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:02,480
usually sometimes a six sometimes a

1422
00:57:05,349 --> 00:57:03,760
thirty

1423
00:57:08,309 --> 00:57:05,359
in the past i've got a whole box of them

1424
00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:08,319
so anyway ten ten is a good number

1425
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:10,559
and you use your predicting magical

1426
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:13,359
special predicting powers

1427
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:17,040
you can peer into the future if you like

1428
00:57:21,990 --> 00:57:20,079
which is the past because

1429
00:57:23,589 --> 00:57:22,000
i'm about to record this which is in my

1430
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:23,599
is this is like this

1431
00:57:28,710 --> 00:57:26,720
einstein relativity mind experiments

1432
00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:28,720
okay so i'm about to do this so it's in

1433
00:57:31,109 --> 00:57:29,760
the future

1434
00:57:33,270 --> 00:57:31,119
there's no question i don't know what

1435
00:57:34,950 --> 00:57:33,280
numbers are going to come up

1436
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,960
but by the time you hear this of course

1437
00:57:38,870 --> 00:57:36,559
it would have been in the past

1438
00:57:41,670 --> 00:57:38,880
or it isn't the past it has happened

1439
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:41,680
it's yet to happen but it has happened

1440
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:43,839
but even though it has happened and the

1441
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:45,520
results are fader complete you don't

1442
00:57:51,910 --> 00:57:48,000
know what the results are

1443
00:57:53,349 --> 00:57:51,920
this is like schrodinger's dice isn't it

1444
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:53,359
should devote a whole episode to this

1445
00:57:57,750 --> 00:57:55,599
anyway

1446
00:57:58,950 --> 00:57:57,760
stop waffling i'm going to roll this die

1447
00:58:01,750 --> 00:57:58,960
three times

1448
00:58:02,470 --> 00:58:01,760
and you use whatever powers you'd like

1449
00:58:06,829 --> 00:58:02,480
to

1450
00:58:08,950 --> 00:58:06,839
here we go shaking in my hand now first

1451
00:58:11,910 --> 00:58:08,960
number

1452
00:58:13,990 --> 00:58:11,920
is 10 all right write that down on the

1453
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:14,000
skeptic zone pad with my skeptic's own

1454
00:58:17,829 --> 00:58:14,559
pen

1455
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:17,839
really okay next one

1456
00:58:26,309 --> 00:58:23,200
so first number's 10 next number is

1457
00:58:28,900 --> 00:58:26,319
seven all right

1458
00:58:31,430 --> 00:58:28,910
last number coming up is

1459
00:58:34,630 --> 00:58:31,440
[Music]

1460
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:34,640
ten well there you go ten

1461
00:58:38,150 --> 00:58:37,440
seven 10 and just for the hell of it i'm

1462
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:38,160
going to go

1463
00:58:48,069 --> 00:58:46,309
box of die box of dice box of dice

1464
00:58:49,670 --> 00:58:48,079
and i'll get out the big the big guns

1465
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:49,680
here we go what's this

1466
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:53,200
this is a 30

1467
00:59:00,309 --> 00:58:56,640
a d i think i've got a d60 somewhere

1468
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:00,319
believe it or not okay here we go

1469
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:03,040
this is a there's a big big die this one

1470
00:59:10,150 --> 00:59:04,240
d30

1471
00:59:19,270 --> 00:59:15,510
the number it's come up on is 27.

1472
00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:19,280
so this week's winning numbers are 10

1473
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:22,640
7 10 and

1474
00:59:29,430 --> 00:59:26,960
27. hang on a second wait a minute

1475
00:59:30,789 --> 00:59:29,440
the total of the first three numbers on

1476
00:59:34,390 --> 00:59:30,799
the d10

1477
00:59:38,630 --> 00:59:34,400
equals 27

1478
00:59:42,309 --> 00:59:38,640
and the number rolled on the d30 is 27.